Backlash as BBC podcast asks 'How can white women not be Karens?'

A BBC podcast discussing white privilege and the concept of "Karens" sparked fierce debate after one contributor said some women should "get out of the way".

The “Karen” moniker has become increasingly popular online to denote a middle-aged white woman displaying bigoted or racist behaviour.

In a Twitter preview for the latest episode of the No Country For Young Women podcast, presenter Sadia Azmat posed the question: “How can white women not be Karens?”

She was joined by Chicken Shop Date CEO Amelia Dimoldenberg and historian Dr Charlotte Riley for the 40-minute discussion which, according to a blurb on the BBC Sounds website, focused on diversity, stereotypes and feminism, and explored the “historic context for ‘Karens’.”

In the segment, Ms Dimoldenberg answered that white women could avoid being Karens by “educating themselves”.

“Read some books so you are aware of the histories of white people and race,” she said.

Dr Riley then replied: “I think as well just try not to be defensive about things, and particularly try not to be defensive about your whiteness.

“I think a lot of the time when women are Karens it is because they are completely unwilling to accept that their whiteness is a privilege and, you know, instead they want to be treated in a special way because they are women.”

She suggested some women “don’t want to interrogate how their behaviour might be racist.”

“I think you have to be ready to think critically about your identity and your privilege,” she added.

“Yeah, and don’t be so loud,” Ms Dimoldenberg agreed.

“Stop shouting and stop attacking black voices,” she continued. “Instead you should be uplifting them.”

“Yeah, get out of the way basically,” Dr Riley laughed.

Scores of Twitter users, however, responded to the debate with fury.

Tory MP Ben Bradley tweeted: “BBC spending £100m on diversity and this junk (which honestly is racist! Would not be acceptable the other way around!) whilst at the same time ditching regional news in order to save £25m.

“Absolute joke. Cancelling my TV license. I don't need to pay for this.”

Meanwhile, talkRADIO presenter Julia Hartley-Brewer commented: “So I’m a gammon, a boomer and now I’m a Karen too.

“Another day, another insult. Keep on going with this and see how well it works out in the end…”

“Gammon” is used as an insult to describe middle-aged white men, commonly those who supported Brexit and are politically right wing.

Fellow radio presenter and counter-extremism activist Maajid Nawaz tweeted: “BBC should be ashamed of silencing women by calling them pejoratives

“If you legitimise “Karen” & “Gammon”, it won’t be long before “Leeroy” & “Abdul” become reciprocal insults.

“Minorities & women have to live with this hateful atmosphere. Bullying is never progressive.”

However, other social media users, dismissed the complaints, with one writing: “I see today is the day the British right-wing lose their minds about the term ‘Karen’.”

BBC Sounds' official Twitter account later removed the contentious snippet of the three women's discussion.

A BBC spokesperson told the Standard: "These comments were not part of the podcast and featured only in a short social media clip.

"The episode itself is an in-depth and broad discussion on racism, class, feminism and stereotypes.”